Realizing Your Best Version with Josh Painter
Excited to release this new episode with my new friend, Josh Painter, who just launched an awesome book – “Best Version Ever.”
The new year is a perfect time to evaluate your best version and what that means to you.
This episode creates space for becoming the best version of ourselves. Josh and I explore personal passions, goal setting, seasons of rest, introversion and much more.
I’m inspired by Josh’s mindset around personal growth while still holding space for things he loves – his family, drumming, surfing, and helping others via his unique events and charity contributions.
“Your life’s purpose is already determined, and that is to become the best version of yourself.”
- Best Version Ever (book)
- Long Road: Pearl Jam and the Soundtrack of a Generation
- Good Will Hunting (movie)
- Innocence Project
[00:00:00] Ali: All right folks. Welcome back . I have a special guest, a new friend, Mr. Josh Painter. We know each other through Front Row Dads, but one of my good buddies literally sent me an email the other day and was like, you have to talk to this guy. And I did not take that lightly. So we talked last week.
And here we are today recording a podcast episode. So Josh, welcome. Thank you for creating space for this. I know little about you, which is why I'm excited to learn more. And there's also some really big events in your life, like a brand new book launch. So I will give you the floor. How would you like to introduce yourself?
[00:00:41] Josh: Dude, thanks so much. Um, can be many things depending on who you're asking, right. To my wife, I'm a husband to my kids, I'm a father. And then also a leader for a residential real estate brokerage in escrow. And then I do some speaking. I do some philanthropy with a charity organization that I helped lead up. Uh, author of the book, Best Version Ever that just released yesterday and finally, amateur drummer.
[00:01:09] Ali: Ooh, amateur drummer. Okay. Mm-hmm. . I love that you threw that in there. What's your relationship to drumming?
[00:01:17] Josh: So I have been drumming for, oh shoot, is today, November. dude. Yeah. Tomorrow is six years that I've been playing the drums. Nice. Yeah. And I never know if you want me to segue or not right into that or...
[00:01:32] Ali: Of course, yeah. Take it where it needs to go.
[00:01:34] Josh: Uh, so I mean, I'm big on setting these goals and kind of mapping 'em out, right? Like when I was a kid, I picked up guitar, but then I put it down mm-hmm. And then later on in life I picked it up, but I quickly put it down. Right. I learned just enough to maybe play some campfire songs on, you know, with three chords. But I never did the hard stuff and I never, like kind of plowed through the boring stuff that makes you really good. Mm-hmm.
And so when I was you know, 38 years old I just decided, you know what, this is the time I am going to become a musician by learning an instrument. And this time I'm not gonna give up and I'm not gonna put it down and I'm not gonna walk away no matter how hard it is.
Because there's an anecdotal 10,000 hour rule, right? I say anecdotal because if anyone doesn't know, there's this anecdotal rule that's called the 10,000 hour rule. If you put 10,000 hours into something, you're going to be an expert at it, right?
I guess the debatable part is, are you an expert? I don't know, but you're gonna be pretty damn good at it. Right? That's what I decided. Mm-hmm. . And I thought, you know what? If I can just put in a thousand hours a year, which is, you know, a few hours a day, then in 10 years I will be an expert drummer. Hmm.
Or at least, as far as the world's population goes, I'll be one of those few that can kill it on the drums. Totally. So, I mean, we're six years in and, generally speaking, I've put in about 6,000 hours. Uh, you know, it could be a little less and it could actually be more. Because every single day I pick up the drumsticks.
Some days, you know, especially with writing a book, it's only 10 minutes. But there were other days where it was no, no joke man. Eight hours. And that's his own story, but , wow. But, but I fully like immersed myself into drumming. Right. I, like, I learned the hard, boring stuff. And I didn't give up.
That's, it's kind of like what my book runs through is like, part of that is how to set goals. It's not the whole thing, but there is a, a section in there and, and so. Just this whole idea of like immersing yourself into something. Right. I immersed myself into drumming. I went to like week long camps in other countries.
Mm-hmm. And drummed with experts. I hired a teacher. I joined a band even though I had no business joining a band. Right. Went to a school where they would put you in a band with other people and then I just ended up having to learn songs that I would've never chosen on my own, which gives you its own set of skills.
So, so yeah, man, amateur drummer. And technically I guess I could call myself a professional now because I did get paid a hundred bucks a few times to play.
[00:04:21] Ali: Yes, dude, that is awesome. Wow. So, aside from just the commitment there and like you said, honoring the drive the goal, what I think is really cool about that is very few people actually pick instruments back up later in life, which I think is awesome.
I was just having a conversation about this with my clients around like, what brings you energy? And he's like, music. I'm like, do more of that. Like, like, yeah. And so it's cool. Like you said, you pick up the drumsticks literally every day is what I heard.
[00:04:57] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I got 'em right uh, next to my desk. I was about to grab 'em and click 'em and then I remembered this isn't a video.
[00:05:04] Ali: Nice. Okay. Awesome, dude. All right, so you seeded a little bit about the book. The main question on this show is what's in focus. So without assuming that, I'm gonna let you answer.
[00:05:18] Josh: So can I have three things in focus?
[00:05:21] Ali: You can have as many as you want. Yeah.
[00:05:22] Josh: Perfect. So, okay. I just launched the book yesterday and the book is based on a live event, an all day goal planning and life visioning workshop that I've been doing for years.
So, while that event that I've been doing for years pushed the book and pushed, you know, all of the content inside of the book, now my plan is that the book can push more of those events, right? Mm-hmm. people read the book and find out about that. And then, I set an intention that as soon as I was done with the book that I was going to make it my goal to spend way more focused family time moving forward, because I really feel like writing a book all year long.
A lot of that suffered. You know, I mean, really everything suffered right? Because I severely underestimated what it takes to write a book. Mm-hmm. And then the third thing is I, I'm building a soundproof room in my garage so I can play more drums.
[00:06:23] Ali: Nice. Like building it all yourself? Or having...
[00:06:27] Josh: Absolutely not. Uh, no I'm having a, a pre-fabricated soundproof room shipped to my house, and then I will be involved in putting it together with tools.
[00:06:36] Ali: That's awesome. Okay, awesome. So we've got the book, which was a massive effort and congratulations. Sounds like you're in the launch and you hit bestseller, which is so cool. The book is now gonna enable you to bring focus back to these live events. And then I heard Focus on family and I heard the soundproof room.
Where I wanna go for a minute with this, Josh, is the book and really the high level concept. I have not read it yet, although I intend to, and I imagine there's a bunch of knowledge and wealth in there, but the topic itself is very interesting to me when we start talking about becoming the best version of ourselves.
So the question is, why did you pick that topic becoming the best version? And before you answer that, actually, I wanna give you some context on why I'm asking that question.
In my life, I found that versioning myself is a really powerful, even esoteric topic that at one point I thought I knew, and then another point I thought I knew, and when I say I thought I knew, it was like this understanding or this awareness around personal growth, Josh. Like personal development.
And for me as of late, that is really, really focused on awareness and paying attention to things that I just didn't see when I was younger or that I see in a different way now. And so the title, the concept itself really piques my interest. And so the question is, why'd you write about this? Or what sparked this? Like where did this come up for you in life?
[00:08:14] Josh: So here's the thing. A lot of people go through life and they're asking themselves what is the purpose of life? And so I say in the book, life is asking you that question right back. What is the purpose of your life? And the great part about it is you get to decide, right? I think a lot of people are wandering around waiting for their life's purpose to hit them.
And the statement that I make in the book is, your life's purpose is already determined, and that is to become the best version of yourself. And here's the thing. That doesn't look like any like predetermined thing. So another thing I write in the book is like for someone, their best version ever might be becoming the best parent they can be.
Mm-hmm. For someone else, it could be the best partner they can be. For someone else, it's the best drummer in the world. And, for one person, it might be just being able to go surfing every day after work. That is their best version ever. But the cool thing is, it's very fluid. You know, it can change.
And I say that in the introduction, like, your best version ever today probably won't look like your best version, you know, 10 years from now. Mm-hmm. . And that's okay. You know, we're always becoming, and that's the best part, you know.
[00:09:40] Ali: Totally, man. Not only does that make logical sense, but that lands with me because it's funny, dude, a few years ago, I was asking that question, what's the purpose?
What's the purpose of it all? What am I supposed to do? For whatever reason, you know, people label this as midlife crisis and other moments where you question why you were born, what you're meant to do. And I remember when I was asking the question at that time, it had so much gravity.
And I just wrestled. I was like, I don't know. And then I went through all these different things with coaching and events, and I still do these things, but I have a very different relationship with them today. And I even started talking and blogging a little bit about purpose journey and what that meant to me. But as it relates to what you shared, I got to a point not too long ago where I was like, this question could try to answer the rest of my life.
Instead of saying what's the purpose, I shifted into there can be purpose in anything I do. . It's literally like, how am I showing up? And I love what you said about having an understanding that like the purpose could just be to become the best version of yourself, which is a beautiful answer.
[00:10:52] Josh: Yeah. And I love what you just said. You know, I, so I've asked myself the same question that, that you've asked. Right. And I'm sure many people have asked like, why are we here? Right. What's the purpose? Yep.
And so, yeah, on one hand, life is asking you and, and giving you this palette to make it whatever you want it to be. But some, sometimes you want to take it a step further, right? And that's where. , like, I can speak for myself personally. I've just surrendered and, and thinking like, I may not know that answer anytime soon.
Right. Because, I've got friends who they don't believe that there's anything beyond what they can see. Mm-hmm. , right? Well, I can't see, you know, X, so it doesn't exist. And you could use that as God or the universe or powers or, or anything, right? Like, well, I can't see it.
And, and it's like, dude, if you take the light spectrum, like we see a minuscule, there's like colors and stuff that you don't see. It doesn't mean they don't exist, right. You just don't see them. Right.
And I often wonder, Like what exists in our world that we don't even have the capacity to see. Mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. . But then we easily just rule it out as like, well, it must not exist because my eyeballs don't see it. And it's like your eyeballs are an instrument that are only tuned to see certain things.
Uh, and so this is just my out there thought of like, I feel like someday we'll see more, or feel more. And so it's like that whole. If a tree falls in the forest and no one's there, does anyone hear it? It's like, well, technically no, because all hearing is, is sound waves hitting like the eardrum, right?
If there's no eardrum around, then no, there's no, and, and like my dog, right? My dog hears a whistle that I don't hear. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it's just they're tuned to hear that. And same with smelling, right? Dogs smell everything. I smell nothing.
So this is just me vibing on the whole idea of like, if we can't see, hear, smell, or even feel something, it doesn't mean that more doesn't exist out there. I just think we're maybe not ready for it yet.
[00:13:00] Ali: I would agree, dude. I would totally agree. I think you gave some some very powerful examples. And I think that to wrap that thought up, when I've started really asking that question, It becomes spiritual. It goes right into the realm of what you're describing of the universe, the way of things.
And then you mentioned surrendering, which we talked about last time we connected. Like the Surrender Experiment was, uh, A impactful book for me when I read that, cuz it was just a different way of being with the universe where I was like, oh, I don't have to control all this stuff. I don't have to have the answers all the time.
I can just let things float around and pay attention to them and then chase things that perhaps give me energy. So I really enjoy this depth of conversation. And I will say, like I mentioned earlier, that I've relieved myself of asking what's the purpose? Because I used to just get lost and be like, I don't know, and then be really stuck and confused.
Whereas I think it's it's cool that you've brought light and beauty to that question.
[00:14:08] Josh: Yeah. It can be very freeing to just finally say, I don't know exactly. To me it feels better to say, I don't know, because I would be scared of me if I was said, I knew everything and thought I knew everything.
And, and there's that saying, and I'm sure I'll butcher it, but it's like flee from the man who knows everything and run towards the man who knows no nothing or so look it up. But it's, it's a great saying and I should probably learn it since I've been trying to say it a lot lately.
[00:14:35] Ali: Yeah, yeah. Pretty sure, man. All right, cool. So we talked a little about purpose. The other thing I believe is part of this book and has been a part of your world is goal setting. Tell me a little bit about that.
How, how did goal setting make its way into book? What's been your relationship with goal setting recently?
[00:14:55] Josh: So, I mean, I started down I guess we call it personal development, self-improvement. Started down this like journey, you know, in the last maybe 10 years. And you know, I started setting goals because I wanted to do more, become more, wanted to have a clear eye on milestones and where I was going.
Um, you know how this made it into the book, like I said, the event kind of inspired the book. So if I'm just rewinding a bit, I was going to events and seminars in the beginning of, you know, self-improvement. And one of the things I found is a lot of the events I went to kind of felt the same.
You know, they'd have some motivational speakers up on stage and then maybe they'd try to get you to buy stuff at the back of the room when they were done speaking. And, and in inevitably I'd come home with a notebook full of some inspiring quotes. I'm gonna throw it on a shelf and do nothing.
And it just got me thinking like, well, what kind of event would I want to go to? Right? And, and so the more I sat with it, the more I realized I would want to go to an event where I actually constructed a plan for my life and bonus points if I actually took action at the event.
And so, that led me to creating that event. And then last year I just put a survey out last December and just asked people, you know, for any feedback or what they'd like to see. And, more often than not people would say, Hey, this was a great event. It would be great to know why we did some of these things, or why some of these things work.
And for me, that was the light bulb of like, oh, I thought about writing a book for the last five years. I wasn't a hundred percent sure what this book was gonna be about. I had ideas related to real estate, but that's boring.
And so, yeah, man, when the light bulb went off of like, oh, that's the book. It, it turned into me kind of documenting my goal setting process.
[00:16:52] Ali: Very cool. Okay, so there is a nice relationship and even almost like an impetus for how it jump started. But to be clear, were you setting goals prior to the book in your life as part of your personal development journey?
[00:17:07] Josh: Yes. Cuz the book has only been this year. So yeah, setting goals for around approximately 10 years. Yeah.
[00:17:14] Ali: Mm-hmm. Do you ever take breaks from setting goals?
[00:17:21] Josh: Yes. I believe that, you know, life ebbs and flows and I don't know that you always want to be on it 100%. Meaning foot on the gas.
Yeah. I say that in the book, man. There's good times for rest and enjoying the things you've accomplished. So yeah, I mean, I'm usually working towards some goal, you know, like I said, I just launched the book yesterday, so I mean, that was a big goal all year long. And then, I guess in that sense, I already told you my goal moving forward is spending more family time.
So maybe I just corrected myself. Maybe not, maybe I am always, and I just don't realize it, you know, sometimes it doesn't feel like it and I'm always drumming, so yeah, maybe I am.
[00:18:01] Ali: Well, I think the reason I asked the question. I'm gonna downshift into fatherhood. Is that, I don't remember exactly when I started setting goals, but it was definitely when I was a young adult and definitely when I started to have this very, to use your words, I had this desire to do more, to become more.
And I recall Josh, like when I got into that phase, which lasted at least a decade plus, I didn't stop. There were very few moments or seasons of rest. It was just like, oh, there's space and I'll just go fill that with something else and just drive to something else. And a lot of that was business, career related. Other things recently became around philosophy, personal growth, et cetera.
And what's so interesting, dude, is it's the one thing that I see in my son, who I love with all my heart, but also that triggers me the most. Is that he does not have space to rest. If there's anything that Everest and I work on together where I feel I'm trying to control it or teach or mentor, it's like, "Hey buddy, let's just rest." Like let's just have some time to be with ourselves.
Cuz he'll out outgo me any day of the week. Like, dad, let's do this, let's play this, let's learn this . And then you can tell he gets kind of frustrated. And Dude, I was listening to one of your podcasts with JV this morning and the thing that your wife said, which you can recite for us, where like when you see something in someone that really gets you.
When I heard you say that, I was like, oh, that's it. That's it. Like my son cannot sit still and it just triggers me.
[00:19:47] Josh: You spot it, you got it.
[00:19:49] Ali: That's it. You spot it. You got it. Well, like I got goosebumps when I heard you say that cuz I was like, oh my gosh. That is so true for that situation in my fatherhood.
[00:20:00] Josh: Yeah. Sometimes when I say something, like, oh, such and such that irritates me. She's like, well, you know, that's cuz you kind of do it sometimes too, right? ?
[00:20:10] Ali: There's so much truth in that for me. And the last thing I'll say about that, Josh, is that last July I came back from an extraordinary retreat called Brave Soul with Philip McKernan, one of my mentors in this awesome group.
And what came up in group discussion sorry, we were on the topic of leadership and goals, and he sort of challenged us and said, "what if I told you to just go home and not set goals for six months?" And you could feel the tension rise in the room. Cause there's a lot of leaders and high achievers in that room. And it's like, what?
But dude, I sat with that and I've honored it. So I came home and since July I have not had any business goals. So I can't say goals across the board cause I do kind of have goals to be out in nature for extended amount of times and other things on the family side. But business, I have not had any goals since then.
And then we're almost on the six month mark and dude, it's been really interesting that, funny enough business was kind of restful going into there. And perhaps that's cuz it's the summer season as well. But I kid you not, I get back and I'm in this no goals phase and boom, like things just picked up. Almost as like the universe, like life telling you like, oh cool, you're not gonna set goals. Great. Now what are you gonna do with this?
And so it's been this interesting place for me of being like, oh, I don't have concrete business goals. And now I'm a little bit challenged in how to deal with a season of more because I didn't prepare for this, I didn't expect it.
[00:21:45] Josh: Mm-hmm. . So now that you say it that way, there have definitely been times where I didn't have business goals.
Mm-hmm. , I mean, to use your words, I open the last chapter saying business was good and I was resting. And then this came out and, you know, and then this happened. I mean, it's almost like a mirror right now. So that's crazy. But yeah, man, I think I would drive myself insane if I always had business goals. Um, yeah, I'm a big fan of the resting period.
But back to what you said about your son. So when did you start that whole period of resting? Like what age was it?
[00:22:28] Ali: I didn't start resting till after he was born.
[00:22:31] Josh: Because you had said it, it almost like annoys you that he won't rest.
[00:22:35] Ali: Yes.
[00:22:35] Josh: So when did you start that whole resting or, or did you never start it and that's why it bothers you, ?
[00:22:40] Ali: No, great question. So yeah, I started resting actually, after my daughter was born. So I'm new at rest in fact.
Okay. Yeah. I didn't know how to rest when I was younger. And I would say I'm probably three years into really appreciating and honoring rest.
[00:22:58] Josh: That makes sense. So I mean, it's fair to say he'll probably take after you and he's molded with you, so he may take the same amount of time. Right.
[00:23:06] Ali: Totally, dude. Totally. And I remind myself of that constantly. I'm like, look, it's your son. There's your DNA, it's your traits. He literally watched you and absorbed your behavior from those first four years where I wasn't resting. So I have an awareness and some theories, assumptions on why, but it's so fascinating that now that's the one thing that I'm just like, oh, this gets me.
[00:23:35] Josh: Yeah.
[00:23:37] Ali: Yeah. Dude, it's interesting. Your kids are a bit older, right?
[00:23:40] Josh: Yeah, I had my son when I was 17 and my daughter when I was 20. Hmm.
[00:23:45] Ali: What's an interesting pattern that you see in your children on this "spot it got it" uh, mental level.
[00:23:53] Josh: Oh, so my son's very introverted. And then my daughter is, is feisty. And when I say that, I mean like there was a past me that was probably more argumentative than he needed to be about certain things I was passionate about. So those are the things I could definitely see in them, you know, cool that they got from me.
[00:24:13] Ali: I love that we have a feisty daughter as well. Sepia is four and she often gets accused of being feisty or sassy. Everyone in the family calls her sassy. And it's funny, dude, cuz like I, I don't think I can claim sassy, but nor can my wife really, but it's this cool, like even at four years old, it's one of those things that as a father I am kind of proud of.
Like, she honors who she is and shows up as who she is. Where sometimes Everest is a little bit more mindful or cognizant of his environment. Whereas like Sepia will tell you straight up what she wants, how she feels, how she thinks, and I think that's beautiful.
[00:24:55] Josh: Yeah. That's awesome.
[00:24:56] Ali: Even though it hurts sometimes, she'll say some hurtful things through that lens.
[00:25:00] Josh: Yeah. Wait till she turns 13. . Okay. .
[00:25:03] Ali: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I have no understanding of that yet, but I imagined that's a whole different level.
[00:25:10] Josh: Yeah. There was this like weird period that just started, it was probably actually 11 or 12. Where you just don't like each other. And that continues for too many years. And then all of a sudden, 17, 18, they turned into this beautiful, well-rounded human being. It's crazy.
[00:25:26] Ali: I can see that. Yeah. You've mentioned intro introversion. So this is a topic that is dear to me because today, I definitely claim being an introvert, and I claim it in a way where like it's just me.
And I read this book. It's actually one of the books back here. "Quiet the Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking." And as I start to dive deeper into this world, Josh, there's extroverts, there's introverts, there's things in between like ambiverts, and all different types of variations.
But, if there's anything big I took from that book and just my understanding of looking at the types, it's that we do kind of live in a world that praises extroverts and gives. Mm. I don't wanna say more value, but it's almost like people can look down on introverts and be like, "why are you introverted?" You're quiet, you're closed off. And I have my own stories around introversion, but I'm curious what that means to you. Tell me a little bit about your relationship with introversion.
[00:26:33] Josh: So it, it's so funny you say that. I really don't know when it started and, I don't know that this podcast is a place for me to speculate that cuz it might then lead to therapy or whatnot. But, and, and I only say that because I literally, I remember being the class clown when I was younger. Okay.
And I remember my teachers being like, yeah, likes to make jokes in the back of the room. Right. And he just won't shut up. I just remember this period in middle school of just turning into this introspective being that wanted to be more of an observer of things and, and maybe just watching and, and, and who knows man.
And maybe the old me would like to think that maybe I was just questioning why do I do these things and blah, blah, blah. Who knows what it was. Right. But then much later in life it began to not serve me anymore. In the sense of like, when my sister-in-law first met me, she would joke of, like, she would ask my wife, are you bringing the mime to Christmas?
Because she's like, oh, he doesn't talk. And then quite a few friends and I mean, like several, were like, oh yeah, when I first met you, I just thought you hated me. Or you want to kick my ass. And I'm like, what are you talking about ? Like, this is absurd, . And then one of my friends was like, yeah man, I remember when I met you, you just like never talked and now that we're friends, you won't shut up.
So it's almost like this selective thing, right? Where like once you feel safe and open up, then you don't shut up, right? Um, so. There's a few things that I'm just gonna like free flow, and maybe these are answers and maybe they aren't.
But the very first thing that comes to mind that I talk about in the book is, it's called the Spotlight Effect. And there's this idea that we are all experiencing the world as if we are the main actor in, in this movie of our life. Right? Yeah. At the same time, there's this dichotomy because as much as you are the main actor in your own life, you are also a supporting character and everyone else's life because they're experiencing the same thing as you are.
And so, The way that this plays out is, let's just say you take a group photo, right? You're, you're in a big group, a photo gets taken, then someone looks at the camera and shows you the photo. Well, everyone does the same thing. They look at themselves, right? How did the photo come out? And sometimes there's a hair outta place or someone didn't open their eyes and the photos ruined for them.
But here's the thing. Nobody else even noticed you because they were looking at themselves and being self-conscious about themselves. And I don't know when it was, but as soon as I realized that everyone was self-conscious about themselves and really didn't give a shit what I was doing, it was super freeing of like, oh, stop caring so much.
Right. And then the more practical answer of how I've become a more willing extrovert is I just got thrown into , you know, situations and events where you just like shared with complete strangers. And it's something that I've incorporated in my event. It's almost like forced public speaking.
Mm-hmm. , I did it so many times. And when you're in these situations where you're sharing with strangers and you're being vulnerable and authentic , not only does it create this really quick, genuine connection with the person, but you start to enjoy it. You're like, oh man, I felt really connected right there.
Like, well, how did I do that? Oh, by sharing right? By taking a step forward, being vulnerable, being authentic. So yeah, I mean, it took like me having to almost make myself get outta my comfort zone and connect more. Right. Doing a podcast like this. Right. Just talking to you. We've just recently met, um mm-hmm.
It's like practice, right? Hours matter way more than talent. You just put in more hours. If someone's doing something better than you, they've probably got more hours at it than you do. So I, I really feel like for us introverts, being extroverted is something that you practice and turn into a habit just like anything else you wanted to learn.
[00:30:40] Ali: Yeah, I think that's a great way to describe it. And to kind of build on it a little bit, one of the things I've paid attention to is that by default, I'm introverted, at least in this phase of life. Cause I agree with you. There were times when I was younger where I was way more extroverted. And for me, there's a relationship, even an understanding of I can become very extroverted when I have energy and interest around the topic.
And, and this has gotten stronger, I should say, is that just like having conversations like this with you and then going to specific, like more esoteric events, they light me up and give me this like, next level, going right back to your book, like where I could start versioning myself. And or at least feeling more alive is how I've described it.
But dude, on the contrary, what that creates in contrast is like then in general, what I call more general situations, it's really hard for me to sustain. And that's where I'm like, oh, my energy is diving.
Like even just the other day I took Everest to his first Broncos game. First, like big N F L experience and dude, it was awesome. It was only awesome though because I got to be with him. Mm-hmm. and watch him soak this up. The aspect of being in a football stadium with 70,000 other humans, I did not like at all. Mm-hmm. .
I was actually thinking like, how do I get out of here? Like, this is not where I wanna be. Mm-hmm. , but I could literally sustain off the energy of my son cause I just like felt how crazy new and, and awesome the experience was for him. So this whole balancing act of like, yeah, maybe we claim that we're by default more an introvert extrovert, but I think almost all of us have a relationship to both of them, you know?
[00:32:31] Josh: Yeah, for sure. I like what you said about default introvert.
I definitely notice it's my default, right? Like, for example, if I'm putting on an all day event. I am exhausted at the end of the day just by the amount of communication and attention to everything. So maybe that's it. Maybe I just very much enjoy being in this quiet space, almost like a meditative state of mind all throughout the day, right?
Yes. It's like, no, I enjoy not needing to say something, just to say it right? Like, my wife's always, always like, you don't, you never talk. Right? It's like, well, Talk when I need to say things. There's just a difference of opinion. I think her energy level is brought up by talking, by sharing, by connecting with people, right?
So yeah, like you said, we're all just different. We can be looked down upon, but, to me it's a special kind of skill to go about, You know, in this presence of just taking everything in.
[00:33:27] Ali: Absolutely. Dude. Observing, just holding space. I was laughing because as you were describing your wife's habit, my mom is the same way.
Like my mom. I had this awesome trip with her recently, Josh where the two of us just went up to the North coast, the Pacific Northwest and explored some nature together. And I literally told her, I was like, "mom, I generally love being with you, but where it's challenging is you're a hyper communicator."
And I gave, I was giving her feedback. I was like, I think you just say almost everything that runs through your mind, . Whereas I am in a season of life where I say very little that runs through my mind. So to your point, I speak when I feel like I need to speak . So dude, that was an interesting experience with her.
And it was well received. Like she didn't take it as a criticism, but like, oh yeah, maybe you're right. I do just kind of fire away, whatever I'm thinking.
[00:34:20] Josh: Yeah. My, my wife's the exact same way and and she has a term for it. She calls it speak to think. Right. She must speak out her thoughts to think them, so, yeah. Okay, cool. Obviously not all the time, but I'll, I'll often catch her talking to herself, . Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's just thinking out loud.
[00:34:39] Ali: Makes sense dude. Cool.
So we covered introversion. The last big thing that piqued my interest in talking to you is this topic of more. So we were jamming on this last time we spoke, and this relates to a lot of what we talked about just having seasons of life.
Sometimes we're resting, other times we're goal setting or achieving. So I think a question to kind of set the tone for this topic is first, are you in a season of more? You just launched a book, so maybe what that feels like or what it felt like leading up to this perhaps. And then like how do you balance more verse less?
Just, yeah. Take that anyway.
[00:35:25] Josh: Yeah. So I mean, I'm definitely in a season of more right now, right? I spent all year deep into writing and promoting this book. In addition to that, had a situation recently come up where I'm reestablishing three different residential real estate brokerage brands all at the same time and a title company.
So I mean, that's all happened within the last few months. I've got my event coming up. I'm full, full force into next year. But you know, the year before was a rest year, man. I was just cruising along. So yeah, how do you balance that? I feel like you'll know, right? Instinctively.
I knew. I just had a feeling it's time to write the book. It's time to push this. Right. It came to me. And I think that when you get bored of the pushing and the striving, that's most likely your body or yourself telling you, "Hey, it might be time for a rest." Mm-hmm. .
[00:36:16] Ali: I love that.
Another mental model that relates to this, Josh, is a good buddy of mine who's also in Front row Dads, Mike Wagner. We discussed on a previous episode this sort of metaphor we came up with after just hanging out enough times and talking about this topic. And we call it mountains verse rivers. And there's this third cosmos. It's not as related to the first two.
But the, the mountain is the season of more. It's climbing, it's achieving, it's hiking, it's, you know, reaching some destination, hence the summit. Whereas the river is floating and just surrendering, paying attention to kind of what's passing by or, or what wants to happen.
And I love your response again because you have the awareness to know that they can change and shift and live harmoniously. Before I had a similar awareness, I would struggle . Like I was mostly climbing mountains and just hiking, hiking, hiking and getting exhausted and not realizing there was a river to sit in.
Right. Whereas more recently, I sat in the river for a long time. Mm-hmm. , I dunno. I was like, it's time to get out. Like I actually, again, you know what I'm saying? That's exactly what I just filtered in what you said.
[00:37:31] Josh: Yeah. I like how you said that, man. I used an ocean wave. Hmm. In my book.
It starts with calm and then it's this slow buildup, right? This buildup. Buildup massive, massive. And then what happens once you hit the top, it comes crashing down, an explosion, and then it goes, and then it's almost like this ultimate quiet as it just recedes back into itself, right?
And then what does it do? Starts all over. And the cool thing is, Anyone who's surfed knows those waves have way different timing, you know, every wave. Sometimes it's fast and sometimes it's slow, right? So, yeah.
[00:38:10] Ali: Oh, I love that. So I love that for so many reasons. Because it's paying attention to nature, it's using it metaphorically.
You live in San Diego, correct?
[00:38:20] Josh: Yes.
[00:38:21] Ali: Okay. So, just to quickly look at the ocean for a minute. What is your relationship with the ocean? Like, have you learned things from the ocean itself?
[00:38:31] Josh: I mean, yeah. It's so funny you say that, right?
Like, my book cover is an ocean wave. You know, and we talk about that analogy I just used in the book. Um, I love the whole like, a drop of water is the entire ocean, you know. In a, I, I know I'm butchering this man, and I don't give a shit . It's like, there's this saying that one drop of water contains the entire ocean, right?
Like, I very much see the world that way and how we're all connected, right? Like if you took one drop of water and then you took another drop of water out of. When, when does it stop becoming the ocean, right? It's all part of this. So I mean, I love just going down to the beach and doing meditation, surfing, paddle boarding. There's something about saltwater, sand and sun man that just brings me alive.
So I don't know if that answers your question, but I hope it did .
[00:39:22] Ali: It definitely does. Yeah. It's actually a top spot that Gabrielle, my wife, would like to live, but we have not gotten super serious about California for various reasons. I will say that the time I've spent in San Diego though has been amazing.
[00:39:38] Josh: Yeah.
[00:39:39] Ali: You know, just being that close to that body of water. Yeah. And maybe it's because it's not my typical environment, but I've just found a lot of peace from being close to an ocean, whether it's east or west coast, actually doesn't matter to me. , perhaps that's just some healthy contrast from living in a more mountain mountainous environment or climate.
So, mm-hmm. , I envy that man. I think that's, that's cool though, that you were born and raised there.
Yeah. I love San Diego. You know, we pay a lot in taxes to live here, but it's so worth it. It's about to be December and it feels like spring or summer. Right. On various days. Right. So, yeah.
Yeah. That's the big draw. That's, that's why Gabrielle is very fascinated by it. Winters have a different mm-hmm. feel out here. Just the darkness and lots of snow, so Yeah. Sure.
What's left unsaid around the book? Anything that we didn't talk about that you feel relates to this awesome conversation?
[00:40:41] Josh: No. I mean, dude, we could talk for five hours, right? If we go down various rabbit holes, but no, the book is very much my passion project right now, so I'm glad we got to talk about it. You know, best version ever is the title, so hope everyone can check it out and get something from it.
[00:40:56] Ali: Yeah. Beautiful. I'm definitely gonna read it and share it, show notes, all that good stuff. So congratulations. That's a huge milestone, dude.
[00:41:03] Josh: Thanks man.
[00:41:04] Ali: Why don't we finish with a few rapid fire fun questions?
[00:41:08] Josh: Sounds good.
[00:41:09] Ali: So the first one, now that you are this awesome new author, what's the best book you've read lately? That's not your book.
[00:41:16] Josh: Okay, so I'm sorry to disappoint everyone listening out there because it's not gonna apply to 99% of people. But the book I just read that I couldn't put down is called Long Road. And it's an author's take on Pearl Jam's entire career.
And every chapter is the title of a song and it's built around a set list and, and a vinyl record. So it's like, here's side a, here's this song and how it relates. And, and he goes down these stories and rabbit holes based on what was going on at that time. It was fascinating for me as a lifelong Pearl Jam fan.
[00:41:53] Ali: I love it. I love unique book recommendations like that because there's plenty of the famous popular books. But yeah, that is definitely a unique one.
[00:42:03] Josh: Yeah, and I can tell you, if you had asked me this question a month ago, I would've had no answer for you. Just cause I've been so buried into writing my own that I've finally, within the last month, felt like I had enough freedom to do a little reading.
[00:42:16] Ali: Right. That makes sense.
Sweet. Okay. Next one is, what's your favorite movie?
[00:42:22] Josh: Hands Down Goodwill Hunting. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Love that movie Solid came out in 1997. You would've thought by now I would've found a movie that surpassed that to me. But I love it. There's no special effects, no crazy stuff. It's just a really great story about human connection.
[00:42:45] Ali: Totally man. Yeah. You've reminded me that I want to rewatch that. It's been a while and yeah, we're in this cool phase of kind of rewatching old movies. Like my favorite movie is still Gladiator and I watched it recently after going five plus seven plus years, and I was like, oh, I love this movie.
I'd forgotten enough to be able to...
[00:43:08] Josh: So gladiator's always been my number two, man.
[00:43:11] Ali: Is that right? Wow. Such a great movie.
Hell yeah. All right, man. Last question. How would you spend 10 million if you couldn't use it on yourself or anyone you loved?
[00:43:23] Josh: Yeah, so I would. Donate it to Innocence Project. So that's a charity that I've recently become familiar with.
It's who I'm donating proceeds from the book to. But basically, it's an organization that donates legal resources to free those that have been wrongly convicted of a crime. And I really need to figure out the answer to this, but I believe they're all on death row. The longest sentence served before being freed so far was 39 years.
So for me, it's so funny cuz our friend Jon Vroman told me a long time ago, he said, if you ever want to know what you should be doing or how you can give more, marry your greatest fear with your greatest love. And so for me, I've always just had this super, super irrational fear that I was just gonna get arrested for some shit I didn't even do, which just makes no sense.
And then, you know, my greatest love is giving back and helping others less fortunate. So, I mean, this charity literally marries both of those things, man. I don't even have to, didn't even have to invent it. It's already there for me. So, they're doing amazing things. I'd give it all to them.
[00:44:36] Ali: What a beautiful answer.
Not only is that kind of a perfect place to end, but man that just aligns with your life, with your story. And yeah, I can relate dude. That's, that is heavy sadness when we have these situations in our world where humans are wrongly accused of things. And then 39 years. Yeah. That's, I'm just about to turn 39.
Like, that's my whole lifetime.
[00:45:05] Josh: Yeah. Yeah.
I think it's most painful because, you know, inevitably after a while and suing, you know, the government, they, they usually end up getting, let's just say they get a million dollars. And even if it was 10 million dollars, I guarantee you none of them would have, you know, 39 years ago said, yeah, I'll do this for 10 million.
Right. You know? Okay. So it's like the, the money is means nothing. Right? Time is the most valuable thing. And just to know that they've been robbed of the most valuable thing we'll ever have. And you know what kills me, man, is like when I think about the people that they haven't helped yet, or they don't have the resources to help, right?
Because they're a finite organization, you know? Mm-hmm. , and that's the part that just kills me.
[00:45:51] Ali: Hundred percent dude.
Well I honor you for being a part of that. That is awesome. We're definitely gonna link to that and I'd like to look into that myself, cuz that definitely sounds like a charity we're supporting.
[00:46:02] Josh: For sure, man.
[00:46:04] Ali: Brother, thank you. This was a pleasure. Like you said, we could probably talk for five more hours and maybe there'll be a future discussion that would light me up. But thank you for today for being here, for creating space for this. I look forward to future experiences, events with you at some point, man.
[00:46:20] Josh: My pleasure, man. Me too. It was great connecting today.
Ali is a creator who's passionate about coaching people through desired self transformation. That's a fancy way of saying he wants to help people do their inner work. He's a father, husband, podcaster, blogger, technologist and many other things that inspire him to stay curious and learn. He's also a huge advocate for nature, hiking, adventure, testing physical limits and experiencing the natural world.